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I just met with a couple of the largest “financial advisors” companies in Bangkok after being barraged by cold calls…Little did they know I have over a decade of experience as a regulator in the field…Harhar!
As a note of caution, I would seriously reconsider dealing with any company that is pushing “unit linked life insurance product.” Sadly, this is ALL that the Thailand and Asia-based advisors can push…
The two major products being pushed both have fees in excess of 10% per year. The reports that the salespeople prepared for me were flawed and did not take into account the fact the fees sky-rocket after several years. Sadly, the fees were mis-represented. Basically, the advisor would have lost his advisory licence in UK or Australia given the breach of conduct. But as this is Thailand, its UNREGULATED.
Another major problem is that your “advisor” will push to get the longest term possible. Most unit linked life insurance plans offered have 25 year plans. The advisor will push 25 years because that will max out his commission..
Note that all advisors in Thailand are commission based. For example, the commissions on an expat investing 2000$ a month in one of these plans on the max term equals over 36,000$ in commissions to the ‘”advisor company” you deal with! Basically, the first 2 years of investments go straight to the company you deal with as commissions! Your advisor will do do everything possible to max out the years of the term because the commissions are massive!
And the commissions are massive because your money is locked into these accounts, often for up to 25 years. If you want to take your money out, in say 5 years, you will pay massive penalties and fees. You will basically lose all your money. Note that the clients don’t learn about that until AFTER they sign a contract.
Beware Bangkok Expat Community, and feels free to PM if you have any questions!
I just met with a couple of the largest “financial advisors” companies in Bangkok after being barraged by cold calls…Little did they know I have over a decade of experience as a regulator in the field…Harhar!
As a note of caution, I would seriously reconsider dealing with any company that is pushing “unit linked life insurance product.” Sadly, this is ALL that the Thailand and Asia-based advisors can push…
The two major products being pushed both have fees in excess of 10% per year. The reports that the salespeople prepared for me were flawed and did not take into account the fact the fees sky-rocket after several years. Sadly, the fees were mis-represented. Basically, the advisor would have lost his advisory licence in UK or Australia given the breach of conduct. But as this is Thailand, its UNREGULATED.
Another major problem is that your “advisor” will push to get the longest term possible. Most unit linked life insurance plans offered have 25 year plans. The advisor will push 25 years because that will max out his commission..
Note that all advisors in Thailand are commission based. For example, the commissions on an expat investing 2000$ a month in one of these plans on the max term equals over 36,000$ in commissions to the ‘”advisor company” you deal with! Basically, the first 2 years of investments go straight to the company you deal with as commissions! Your advisor will do do everything possible to max out the years of the term because the commissions are massive!
And the commissions are massive because your money is locked into these accounts, often for up to 25 years. If you want to take your money out, in say 5 years, you will pay massive penalties and fees. You will basically lose all your money. Note that the clients don’t learn about that until AFTER they sign a contract.
Beware Bangkok Expat Community, and feels free to PM if you have any questions!
Hi,
I recently met with financial professional advisor in my office. I was told this product best in marketplace.
Does any knows about this policy ? It’s called the Generali Vision.
Some points are unclear to me, because english is not my first language. I want to sign the deal before i go home for holiday, but don’t understand something, especially:
“The first 100% of regular premium unit allocations during the initial period are set aside in order to fund the administration fees due over the duration of the premium payment term. The exact period for this funding is shown on the Policy Statement and depends on the premium payment term of your policy.”
–> What does mean ???
I was explained have really good bonus right now and that I must maintain investment for 23 months, aftwarards I can withdrawal savings. I was told must act fast, or else will lose out. So i Hope can have fast response from helpful person.
Thanks for helping!
J
/profile/3-jameschi/?do=hovercard” data-mentionid=”3″ href=”<___base_url___>/profile/3-jameschi/” rel=””>>@JamesChi The plans have a “lock-up” period – this is money that you can not take out until the term expiration (let me guess, the advisor is saying 25 years is best for you?!). This money will be subjected to a fee throughout the 25 years, and this is how the fund company pays the up-front commission to the advisor.
These plans are extremely expensive, 95% of the “advisors” have sold cars as a previous job, and if they claim to be tax-free you are being lied to. Save yourself 7% a year and buy a couple of indexed ETF’s and call it a day.
I used to work for one these financial companies and yes many of them are based on commissions. And so are many other people that work in sales (including real estate, bankers etc.) That’s fact of life.
As every other industry, you have the unscrupulous people that you might fall across, but you have the decent ones as well. One just has to make an intelligent choice and keep on looking for the right match.
I did also thought that the products were expensive, then I realized that it’s the WHOLE banking & financial industry that try to make more and more money out of the people. … and my bank or my mum’s government retirement plan is not an exception.
My 3 cents is that: with or without financial adviser people HAVE to read the conditions, the fees, the terms in order to make intelligent decisions not when it comes to their finances, but to everything.
My biggest issue here is that after examining these products, there is NO justifiable reason to use them. The fees are extremely high, the plans are not flexible, and the worst of all, the terms and conditions are not transparent. Basically, they are entirely unsustainable. I asked the ‘advisor’ to explain how the fees worked, and I got a vague answer, which I found through further study to be mis-representation. I was also pushed to sign a 25 year investment plan, which is INSULTING. All the more so as he wanted me to sign up for this plan after only our second meeting.
I calculated the fees on a 25 year investment plan with the recommended company. Based on investing 1000$ a month, I would be paying over 2000$ per year in basic fees for 25 years. A quick calculation shows that even in a tremendous bull market, where my 1000$ monthly investment was earning 10% per year, I would still be losing money (around $800 per year). And if the market dives, or just breaks even, I would still be paying that 2000$ per year in basic fees. Even if I decided to decrease the amount of my monthly investment, or stop investing altogether, I would still have to pay that 2000$ per year in basic fees. If I wanted to take out all my money, I would lose everything due to the massive cancellation fees. And let’s assume I WILL want to take out my money at some point, given that a 25 YEAR INVESTMENT plan is ludicrous to begin with!
/profile/39-stickybkk/?do=hovercard” data-mentionid=”39″ href=”<___base_url___>/profile/39-stickybkk/” rel=””>>@StickyBKK – WHY WOULD ANYONE PUT THEMSELVES IN THIS POSITION???? Tell me, how does this in any way relate to your Mum’s pension plan back home?
My conclusions are as follows. It’s a perfect storm here in China. You have salespeople peddling unit-linked life insurance plans disguised as expatriate financial investment plans in a totally UNREGULATED environment. At the same time, you have naive expats who are easily suckered in by these salespeople given these plans are basically outlawed in their home country. Given that there are so many of these investment ‘advisories’ it’s clear many many many expats have been suckered in to these plans by hyper-aggressive salespeople trying to secure massive commissions.
And to your point that expats should read the terms and conditions more clearly, I still find a couple things strange from my last meeting:
1) The ‘advisor’ I met could not supply an answer on how big the cancellation fees would be if I decided to cancel my plan, aside from telling me not to worry about it.
2) The role of the massive “bonus” that accompanied the investment plan. The recommendation I received included a massive ‘guaranteed’ 50% bonus on the $1000 I would invest each month for the first 18 months. Of course, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn’t. After running the table on this bonus, it’s clear to me this is an old trick. It disguises the massive 10% annual fees with 18 months of 50% bonuses. The plan seems great for the first 18 months, after which, and for the next 23.5 years, you are paying massive maintenance fees. Of course, by that time, if you cancel the plan you will lose all your money. And of course, my ‘advisor’ would be long gone.
I know that there are people in finance who are professionals and do right by their clients. Not all of them are like this necessarily. I would want to know the answers to some of these tough questions from a person who want me to give them a wad of my money. If they are transparent and above board, no problem. If they are trying to sell me a program as described by the OP, what should i do? Go along for the ride? If someone is a financial consultant help clients make legitimate, transparent choices that helps improve their position, they have nothing to worry about.
I just started investing. I don’t have a ‘huge wad of money’. I don’t work in the financial industry, nor do i and my boyfriend care to sit watching figures every morning. We are happy with our Austen Morris advisor, who has explained everything very simply and my Boyfriend has consistently made decent returns with him for the last 5 years.
There are no ‘astronomical fees’ with my scheme, and my boyfriend was able to withdraw money to buy 2 more cars to add to his collection, without “massive penalties”.
I guess each person is different, but we are happy with our experiences.
In Shanghai medical fees are set by the Shanghai Municipal Health Bureau and apply to all non-expat hospitals. Like American hospitals, each and every element of an examination is broken down and assigned a fee. Included here are some of the more common items. Medication is not included nor are surgical procedures.
Hospitals are assigned a rank based on their capability:
Level III: Large university-affiliated teaching hospitals.
Level II: District area hospitals with one or two specialized areas.
Level I: Local or rural health centers providing more basic care.
Expats are advised to seek treatment at Level II facilities for common ailments (colds, food poisoning, cuts and scrapes, etc) and Level III for anything else. Level III hospitals include Dongfang, Ruijin, Renji, Shanghai Sixth People’s Hospital, Shanghai Ninth People’s Hospital.
Registration Fees
Hospital Card: 1.5 RMB
Hospital Book: 1.5 RMB
General Outpatient Consultation Fees
Level III: 14 RMB
Level II: 10 RMB
Level I: 7 RMB
Expert Outpatient Consultation Fees
Level III
Deputy Director: 17 RMB
Chief Physician: 20 RMB
Level II
Deputy Director: 14 RMB
Chief Physician: 17 RMB
(In China most physicians are specialists. For example, if you have a rash you will see a Dermatologist directly and pay according to the “General” fee schedule (above). “Expert” refers to physicians holding senior titles in their respective departments. Expert consultations normally require an appointment.)
Dentistry
General Check-up and cleaning
Scaling (Plaque removal): 100 RMB
Polishing: 200 RMB
Fluoride treatment: 2 RMB/tooth
Dental X-ray: See X-ray section
Procedures
Composite resin filling: 40 RMB
Glass ionomer filling: 30 RMB
Amalgam filling: 20 RMB
Pulp capping: 15 RMB
Pulpectomy: 40 RMB
Pulp plasticizing therapy: 30 RMB
Root canal preparation: 20 RMB
Root canal filling: 50 RMB
Advanced Micro root canal therapy (w/ surgical microscope): 100 RMB
Tooth fracture repair: 50 RMB
Abscess incision and drainage: 25 RMB
Teeth whitening: 1500 RMB
Front veneers: 200 RMB/each
Orthodontics
Appliances (i.e. Braces): 3000-6000 RMB depending on type of correction necessary
Basic Wound Care
Debridement (Cleaning and suturing)
Large (8 sutures or more): 100 RMB
Medium (5-7 sutures): 50 RMB
Small (0-4 sutures): 20 RMB
Dressing (Bandaging)
Very large: 15 RMB
Large: 10 RMB
Medium: 6 RMB
Small: 4 RMB
Laboratory Tests
Complete Blood Count: 16-20 RMB
C-reactive protein: 20-40 RMB
Sedimentation Rate: 3-10 RMB
Prothrombin Time: 10-15 RMB
Blood glucose: 5-15 RMB
HbA1c: 20-50 RMB
Basic Urine Examination: 4 RMB
Basic CSF Examination: 15 RMB
Urea: 5-15 RMB
Uric acid: 5-15 RMB
Creatinine clearance: 15 RMB
H. pylori rapid detection breath test: 130 RMB
Thyroid function
T4: 30 RMB
T3: 30 RMB
FT4: 40 RMB
FT3: 40 RMB
TSH: 40 RMB
Liver function
ALT: 15 RMB
AST: 15 RMB
GGT: 15 RMB
ALP: 15 RMB
Albumin: 12 RMB
Bilirubin: 15 RMB
Bile acids: 15 RMB
Ammonia: 10 RMB
Lipids
Cholesterol: 15 RMB
Triglycerides: 15 RMB
HDL: 15 RMB
LDL: 15 RMB
Lipoprotein(a): 60 RMB
Tumor markers
CEA, AFP, PSA, CA-27, CA-29, CA-50, CA-125, CA15－3, CA130, CA19－9, CA24－2, CA72－4, etc.: 30-80 RMB/each
Inorganic elements
Potassium, Sodium, Calcium, Phosphorus, Magnesium, Iron, Chloride, Lead: 5-30 RMB/each
Trace elements
Copper, Selenium, Zinc, Strontium, Cadmium, Mercury, Aluminum, Manganese, Molybdenum, Lithium, Arsenic, Iodine: 30 RMB/each
Therapeutic drug concentrations
Digoxin, phenytoin, theophylline, digitalis, gentamicin, lidocaine, valproic acid, ephedrine, methotrexate, vancomycin, carbamazepine, barbital: 70 RMB/each
Electrocardiogram (EKG)
Standard 12 lead EKG: 20 RMB
Esophageal EKG: 25 RMB
Ultrasound
Single organ: 10 RMB
Single organ w/ color Doppler: 20 RMB
Routine Examinations (i.e.: Abdominal, Obstetric, Chest, etc): 30 RMB
Routine Examinations w/ color Doppler: 60 RMB
X-ray (per film)
Plain films
5×7: 10 RMB
8×10: 15 RMB
10×12: 21 RMB
11×14: 24 RMB
12×15: 26 RMB
14×14: 29 RMB
14×17: 32 RMB
Dental
Standard: 10 RMB
Occlusal: 15 RMB
Panoramic: 40 RMB
Mammography
Each side: 90 RMB
Fluoroscopy
General (Chest, Abdomen, Pelvis, Limbs): 4 RMB
Esophageal barium meal examination: 15 RMB
Digital X-ray supplement
Digital X-ray (per study): 80 RMB
Computed Radiography (per study): 80 RMB
MRI
Basic fee (per area)
<0.5T: 350 RMB
0.5T – 1.5T: 450 RMB
>1.5T: 550 RMB
(“T” refers to the strength of the magnet. 1.5T is the most common.)
Extras
Functional Brain Imaging: 80 RMB
Cardiac Function: 80 RMB
Angiography: 80 RMB
Spectroscopy: 80 RMB
CT
Basic fee (per area)
<64 slice: 170 RMB
64 slice: 200 RMB
(“Slice” refers to the level of detail the machine can provide. 64 slice is the most common.)
Extras
Contrast Enhancement: 100 RMB
PET/CT
Full body: 7500 RMB
Area: 4500 RMB
PET
Systemic: 6500 RMB
Local: 3500 RMB
What’s the fee for treatment of OCD? I should inquire into that if I were you.
1 minute ago, Antonlvdm said:What’s the fee for treatment of OCD? I should inquire into that if I were you.
Inpatient psychiatric ward, Level III: 36 RMB/day
With that fee, I think you’d be better off with a gypsy fortune teller. But hey, what do I know?
Healthcare in China is heavily subsidized by the government. Healthcare in the US is heavily subsidized by insured patients to pay for the uninsured.
Bottom line is patient fees rarely reflect the true cost of providing the service no matter where you are.
There is a 200+ page price list available online, but only in Chinese. I translated certain relevant portions to help out readers.
The context is this is the price you will be charged at a hospital in Shanghai if you go there needing any of these services.
No, I’m not sick. But, as an American, I just find it amusing that you can good quality service cheaply and quickly in a “developing” country.
BTW, people are constantly posting questions about heath care so might as well just put the basic stuff in a list for those who want it.
Being somewhat visually impaired ( near sighted ) I am curious about vision care. I know there is any number of places to have glasses made but what if encounter something more serious, say retinal detachment or tearing.
I ask only because I have had surgery in Canada ( I am Canadian ) for just such a thing about 5 years ok. My surgeon at the time mentions that it could happen again.
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